JoomlaWorks

96 comments

• fititnt 05 Feb 2011
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  I STRONGLY disapprove the way wrote this text, or even what they want to encourage with this criticism, even if agree with your choice of not wanting to upgrade the K2. At least in MY opinion, rather than just want to get some attention (which is not really a problem) is that seem to want to incite chaos on comunity of Joomla users just to get YOURS desires accepted, or to justify your i-dont-like way of new joomlas.

  What I am understanding your post is that all the improvements to the core joomla should stop to support extension. Or at least it should be slow enough so you have time to update your extensions. Seriously: is THIS what you want? Whether or not it took three years longer for a simple update from 1.5 to 1.6, the way you wrote, you still want to take longer. It seems you are upset with the fact that ultimately will want to decrease the cycle update of new versions just to lessen the difficulties in upgrading, and you're against it?

  One of the best things that I, as a developer, like the 1.6 was that it was completely rewritten in a decent, beautiful, style MVC. Are strongly inducing developers to make code more beautiful, and therefore easier to maintain and upgrade. And at that point, you have every right to feel that the changes to the end user were small, and even speak ill of the core of Joomla.

  If your extension is in Joomla 1.5 does everything the core joomla 1.5 does and what the joomla 1.7 promises to make, great for you! You deserve my congratulations for doing a wonderful extension! But will not want to speak ill or prevent the Joomla continue to evolve because you spend working with it. You will have at least two years of official updates for Joomla 1.5.

  I especially do not know about other developers, but at least for me, will do not try to speak the same kind of text within a group of developers who are collaborating with Joomla, because you'll probably be criticized, even by those who understand the difference between good code and a poorly written, because it is just going against the wishes of the majority of people who participate in discussions when you argue that not only the development is moving too fast, as it should be slower. Moreover, there are hundreds of extensions on JED and several of them should be totally rewritten rather than just updated to run on Joomla.

  If you do not want to update a CCK, ok, no problem. I'm sure someone will update an existing one, or will be new, or better yet, users will learn to make better use of native features of Joomla.

  And do not want to encourage thousands of users against the development and evolution of CMS and put the blame on the core Joomla for you and your group prefer not to, because that's what you seem to be wanting to do. And if you're really angry with Joomla CMS, give up the pass schedule for Wordpress or Drupal and (try to) be happier in other CMS.

  PS. It will probably be angry that me, Emerson, have written it, but make sure that more people would say such thing. Those who truly help to code for CMS avoid public discussions and probably will not get involved in that. Very few programming and help in the Joomla core, and the way you wrote, is wanting to play thousands of users simple, do not even contribute to helping others in forums, and I really believe that playing his criticism is accepted will delay the development of CMS, discourage developers, and discourage the use of Joomla in the long run by non noobs

  
  
• Amy Stephen 05 Feb 2011
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  Goodness. Hardly know what to say here.

  intercisa - That isn't typical Brian response - it's the foundation of the GPL. As a user, you are guaranteed four rights - to use, study, change, and share the code. Where we run into trouble is when people start projecting more rights than that. Like maybe even the right for a developer to postpone updating until a time in which he is ready.

  Unworthyslave - To be honest, I am not sure why anyone is responding to your "points." Seems to me you can convince everyone by doing it - not by suggesting that Fotis do it for you because you don't see it as difficult.

  I'll bet a beer to all who read this and show up at JAB11 that K2 will be 1.6 ready by May. (I could be wrong - but if I am, I would love to buy you a beer, anyway. :)

  For those who are passionate about that becoming a reality, find a way to help, or donate some money so that Fotis can afford to do so. If contributing towards a solution is not something you are willing to do, then show some respect for Fotis scheduling his free time for when and how it works for him.

  
  
• Fotis Evangelou 05 Feb 2011
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  Dear Unworthyslave, it's a lot of work when you need to use double everything because someone decided to rephrase function and class names...
  

  
  

  
  
• nikosdion 05 Feb 2011
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  @unworthyslave Think of it like that. It takes 45 seconds to demolish a skyscraper, but 2 years to build one. Read my comment above. Unless you have gone through the frustrating steps to port a complex extension to 1.6, please do not express your personal opinion about the feasibility or degree of difficulty of such an endeavour like it's the undeniable truth.

  Example: It took me hundreds of hours to port Akeeba Backup to 1.6 and just consider that Akeeba Backup basically uses only around 5% of Joomla's API. With a more complex extension (like K2) it can easily take you months. Don't trust the unbelievable amounts of bullshit written by the Joomla leadership, like "you only have to change 5 lines of code to make your 1.5 extension 1.6 compatible". If they were to say "you only to change 5 lines out of 6" they might have been more close to the truth.

  
  
• Fotis Evangelou 05 Feb 2011
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  No reason for anyone to pay us Nick... Until we finish converting our 20+ important extensions to 1.6, 1.7 would be out, LOL...
  
  Ask yourself this... What's more important to you and your clients: the content or the ACL? If it's the content, just hang in there for a while. No one put a gun up your face saying "damn you upgrade to 1.6!!"...

  
  

  Be reasonable, think smart. And provide me with one, just one thing other than the ACL as a valid reason to bear the transition between to major Joomla releases...

  
  

  The bad thing that was communicated by the joomla team was the wrong version numbering. It shouldn't be 1.6. The people could understand how big the changes are...

  
  

  And the changes of course are mostly renamed elements in the framework... Go figure...

  
  

  
  
• unworthyslave 05 Feb 2011
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  @Sorry, but this whole blog post was a flame. K2 is a beautiful extension, however the blog post was riddled with inaccuracies and much of it is simply not true, which does NO ONE any favors.

  If you're not going to port k2 for 1.6, that's perfectly ok. It's free and open source and you did a great job providing a great product to the community. HOWEVER, do the community a favor and quit throwing stone, and bow out like men.

  Don't kid yourself...if Joomla 1.6 wasn't that much work, you still have to explain to me why joomlaworks is complaining about how much work it would be to get k2 to 1.6?

  
  
• intercisa 05 Feb 2011
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  @nikosdion I think everybody understand you and beside how hard can it be this upgrade to 1.6, fellows at JoomlaWorks have to run their successful business just as like as we should have to do as well. Bye!
  
• nikosdion 05 Feb 2011
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  Regarding Joomla 1.6 development, the actual development time was more close to 16 months, 7 of which were spent after the core developers practically stopped developing any code and handed off an unfinished product to the Joomla Bug Squad. Whole features were missing. I remember myself practically rewriting the installer after Beta 1 and Radek implementing whole missing views. Based on that experience, lots of things can happen in the 6 months to 1.7.

  As for all non-developers here expressing their opinion about how hard it is to adapt an extension to a new framework (because that's what 1.6 is), here's an analogy for you. A 1978 Mini Cooper had an 800cc engine. So does a 2009 Smart. How hard could it be taking the engine off the Smart and stuffing it in the Mini Cooper? Come on, it can't be that hard... Reality check: it's really f...ing hard, takes a preposterous amount of time and a truckload of money. Both may be 800cc engines but EVERYTHING else is different: engine bases, driving axle position, width, weight, height, connection to the pedals, the semi-auto gearbox vs. the manual gearbox, the works! It's the same thing with Joomla 1.5 to 1.6. 1.6 has a completely different engine under the hood. We can't just take it and put it in the existing car. We have to build a brand new car. Are you willing to pay Fotis and his team to build this new car for you?

  
  
• intercisa 05 Feb 2011
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  @brianteeman Without any offensive that was typical Brian-like respond from you... :-)
  
  I think all of us who wrote here (because Fotis ask us to comment his decision) like using the K2 CCK with Joomla
  I thought that K2 has a strong community and we can make conversation with each other. This topic is very sensitive because not only Fotis and JoomlaWorks has business plan and perhaps we also has our and this is a great platform to ask the developers about the future we could count on it. Can you understand it?

  About a half year ago the JoomlaWork respond to our question about the next release and K2 was the following: when the official release is out, then will go the K2.

  In January 2011 when the Joomla 1.6 release was celebrated in all of the world, the updated respond from JW was, the K2 for 1.6 is going in February.

  Today Fotis has announce that it is delayed. Many of us are maybe disappointed but I believe we can understand his reason. We appreciated their volunteer work so much and as a community we could support them in many way.

  I think that writing those (who are unhappy now but still like K2 so much) that they can/could/should go away and Do It Yourself (still 3 words) is quite rough and undiplomatic, do not you think?

  You know: agree or disagree... I still care about it. :-)

  Best regards and have a nice day/night for all of you,
  K2 CCK for the win

  
  
• Fotis Evangelou 05 Feb 2011
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  Copying is not enough ;) You have to have a vision and be able to challenge things...

  
  

  We all saw today what Nooku Server looks like and what it does. We're gonna experiment with it a lot. I suggest others do that as well.

  
  

  And hey, if ACL is more important than content and layout flexibility, there's always Drupal to try. No need to stay with com_content in 2011 ;)
  

  
  

  P.S. For the record, dear "flame" people, don't kid yourselves... 3 years for 1.6? Come on...

  
  

  
  
• torkilj 05 Feb 2011
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  I think it's a bold move you're making, considering the large Joomla userbase you undoubtably have. It's also something any Joomla extension developer should consider if they're living off of extensions with more than 10 lines of PHP code in them. Nooku Framework is not just some hype or the latest developer eyecandy; it's a framework also end-users should be aware of, as it makes extensions more secure, easier to extend and less expensive to maintain.
  
• brianteeman 05 Feb 2011
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  To those of you not happy with this decision you can always take the code and make it work with 1.6 yourself. thats the beauty of the freedom given to you by open source gpl software.
  
• unworthyslave 05 Feb 2011
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  @Chris I started to think that there might be a glitch after it posted a 3rd time :-P

  I also like k2 and even use it on my main site as well as a few others, however the way JoomlaWorks handled this post is complete rubbish and either very uninformed or quite arrogant.

  Just as an fyi, Joomla released a new blog today:
  http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leadership/1407-why-developers-should-upgrade-sooner-than-later.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JoomlaCommunityCoreTeamBlog+%28Joomla" rel="nofollow">http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leadership/1407-why-developers-should-upgra...!+Core+Team+Blog%29

  
  
• Chris_Raymond 05 Feb 2011
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  I'm totally with you on this one unworthyslave(interesting name by the way)...this comment system doesn't like the iPad.

  The new ACL is well worth the upgrade IMHO. And no disrespect to K2, because I used it for a site and liked it overall, but it totally bypasses the native Article system - which was confusing to all those I sat down to teach how to use...so it was a deal breaker and I never used it again. Joomla 1.5 ACL was crap and everyone here knows it. Embrace the change Joomlaworks or get left behind.

  
  
• Chris_Raymond 05 Feb 2011
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  If 1.6 changed so much from 1.5, why won't 1.7 do the same?
  
• unworthyslave 05 Feb 2011
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  @Chris, because Joomla already said that changes are going to be a lot smaller and more manageable from now on, e.g. http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leadership/1395-the-path-forward-migration-and-the-future.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JoomlaCommunityCoreTeamBlog+%28Joomla" rel="nofollow">http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leadership/1395-the-path-forward-migration-...!+Core+Team+Blog%29
  
• Chris_Raymond 05 Feb 2011
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  If 1.6 changed so much from 1.5, why won't 1.7 do the same?
  
• Chris_Raymond 05 Feb 2011
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  If 1.6 changed so much from 1.5, why won't 1.7 do the same?
  
• intercisa 04 Feb 2011
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  @Fotis What if Joomla 1.7 will not brings news stuff in, that won't be already provided by K2?

  Will you still stick with 1.5 and implement your whole K2 under the Nooku system, or won't? That will maybe break many of us I suppose.

  Any sneak-peek about about the newsletter component and others? There were some whispers and tweets about it as well...

  
  
• unworthyslave 04 Feb 2011
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  @JoomFlix, I'm sorry but "10 out of a million will actually use this new ACL" is completely inaccurate. It is one of the most common questions I get asked and for Joomla 1.5 I used to have to recommend people to the ACL JED categories. So it is a highly sought after feature...