The "You get what you pay for" idea undermines the whole concept of 21 Century thinking and  "Open Source" - Microsoft thought Encarta would never have any serious competition from Wikipedia as it was FREE... The only place you will buy Encarta now is Ebay while wikipedia (for all its errors/ommissions) flourishes.

So, i would say the FREE of OpenSource still has a higher value than what is/could actually be paid in cash. However, the price (as you have touched upon) is research/time rather than a call to support and hard cash.

That said, (as i run a business) I would prioritize the revenue streams too... But I would also protect myself by making sure the breadcrumbs i had used to build my business were still valid or i may isolate the very people that give me that revenue.

i have bought many items from JoomlaWorks and installed them for clients... However as a result of FEELING left out in the dark, i will in all probabliily take my business elsewhere as (too me) that important factor that helps run a business has currently been lost: Credibility.

As i'm sure you're aware having read this thread... i'm not alone. I will however take a look at twitter and see what the latest update is as i really would like K2 to work...

 

i'm sure it will give the K2 team (if they do ever read this thread) a warm feeling that many users like yourself are so loyal...

 

 

Lance Thompson said:

You are right but you also have to take into account that fact that K2 is free and as with free software, you get what you pay for. Support for Joomla itself requires a LOT of forum searching, posting, Googling, and more.

Also, Joomla Works has made an official announcement via Twitter. Joomla Works' sites could definitely use some streamlining to improve communication, but if I were them, I'd be prioritize the things that bring in revenue too.

I'm not trying to persuade you in any direction and you've got to be the one who makes the proper decisions for you and your clients.

Lance, I think it goes without saying that the JoomlaWorks team decided to build this awesome tool and regardless that it is free and I know anyone that has used it thanks them for giving such a great tool to Joomla (I know I do!) but the fact is they should have taken support into account free or otherwise. As we all know they do have commercial products (Some that integrate with K2, for better or worse) and to me it does not give me confidence to know they do not support this huge project and it is what I feel I can expect from anything that I would purchase here.

 

Yes it is free but they built it and they had to have had an idea of the popularity that it would generate. I support and mentor several forums and it does not take all that much even if you don’t have time to answer all the questions to at least answer the important ones. Like Chris said it would not take that much to give us something to hold on to that we can plan ahead without faith. There are many threads on this forum that are downright nasty in how they talk about the developers. The fact that these threads are still here tells me that the developers really could care less or they would either find out what the frustration is or delete the thread. That type of mentality is simply pathetic on their part and shows that they could care less about the people that use their tools and shows just how arrogant they are.

Lance Thompson said:

The reality is that many extension do not support J1.7 yet so even if K2 were 1.7 ready, there are many other extensions that aren't. I'd even go so far to say that it's probably not yet a good idea to implement a 1.7 site. Just because new software comes out, doesn't mean it's a good idea to use it out of the gate.

 

Really? That would have been true 2 or 3 months ago but I have been building with it for all my new projects and of all the extensions I use (and the list is huge) the only one that is not on board is K2. At least the ones I have come to depend on anyway. Joomla! 1.7 is in no way new software and has been in the development for a year or more. I am here to say it is a solid platform and anyone that is not using it and still developing with 1.5 is making life hard on themselves by creating new sites that will eventually need to be updated. Not to mention that 1.7 is so far ahead of 1.5 on almost every level that anyone not already using and developing with it is behind the times. Perhaps if the JoomlaWorks team planned K2 from the beginning they would not have had to add the kitchen sink and would have made the migration to 1.7 a reality with all the other leading Joomla developers by now?

 

Thanks for the info Kelsey and I have paid and used Zoo but I stopped, not because of the claim here of poor support as I was treated very well in that area. My thing is the huge price that came with it just was not justified. Personally I am ready to go back though because unlike K2 it is supported and it works with 1.7 and I honestly think the direction they are taking shows so much more in the way of maturity and planning than K2 ever put into their efforts!

 

Lance Thompson said:

You are right but you also have to take into account that fact that K2 is free and as with free software, you get what you pay for. Support for Joomla itself requires a LOT of forum searching, posting, Googling, and more.

Also, Joomla Works has made an official announcement via Twitter. Joomla Works' sites could definitely use some streamlining to improve communication, but if I were them, I'd be prioritize the things that bring in revenue too.

I'm not trying to persuade you in any direction and you've got to be the one who makes the proper decisions for you and your clients.

Lance, to my mind there are two points to keep in mind regarding the "It's free, so get over it" mentality:

 

1) K2 can be used as a standalone product, but works best in conjunction with others - SIG Pro being a case in point. And now, Frontpage Slideshow. They get you into their ecosystem with a great tool that's free, but if you want to extend it - well, the really important stuff will cost you real money.

 

And that's absolutely fine. I don't always use SIG Pro with my K2 installs, but it's frequently worth the money to have it installed. So Joomlaworks are absolutely making money on the back of K2.

 

2) Users contribute to the success of K2 by investing in it, then promoting it in other ways. Increased users means increased sales of the ancillary products.

 

For example, I have a couple of posts on my blog about K2. 14 months after my tutorial on integrating Disqus with K2 was written, it's STILL the most popular article on my site. So I can say that while I may not have contributed much in the forums or as much as Simon (for example), I've significantly contributed to the K2 eco system in a way that has almost certainly generated profit for Joomlaworks.

 

Now with the recent changes to Disqus, I was considering figuring out how to implement their new, more persistent, method of determining the correct page to show comments on - but now I don't know if I'll even be using K2 in the future at all, so why would I bother? That's an article that may not happen now and therefore potentially loses Joomlaworks sales

 

The point of all of the concerned and upset members in this thread is that we've invested in K2. More than just building sites with it. We've promoted it, we've supported it, we've bought ancillary products for it. 

 

So our businesses are intertwined with Joomlaworks. It's an ecosystem - and one part of it seems to be failing. We all now need to make a decision on whether to join another ecosystem.

 

And Joomlaworks could nip this all in the bud right now by just communicating, just a little bit.

 

I'd love nothing better than to hear great news regarding K2 and 1.7.

 

I don't want to learn another CCK - I want to continue giving Joomlaworks my money for SIG Pro and Frontpage Slideshow. 

 

We'll see.

nothing been posted by them, "today", cmon....

Lance Thompson said:
Oh and Fotis posted this on his Twitter account: 

I'm gonna publish a "state of K2" post today, so y'all whiners know were 2.5 (2.6 etc.) are heading… The news is very good :) #Joomla #K2

The fact that 'we' are apparently whiners (even in jest) says a lot as to where i will be spending my cash in the future...

so, when i can donwload the final K2 release in joomla 1.7? :)build a site, and need this compoments, i don't use other!

The final release is coming... But 'when' is apparently a secret that only the K2 masters know and they will only tell the most dedicated among you. So you had better go search for the Holy Grail instead (Sadly)

eXigo said:
so, when i can donwload the final K2 release in joomla 1.7? :)build a site, and need this compoments, i don't use other!

What the hell is twitter?? hahahaha

My clients/customers don't give me a break...

Lance Thompson said:

Yes, Twitter is pretty tough to find...  lol.  Besides, he said he's in the hospital. Give them a break.

 

I like ^^

Lance Thompson said:
It's obvious you care about K2 or you wouldn't keep coming back. Complaining on the forums I'm sure isn't going to increase the output of the Joomla Works team and as they have said before, K2 for 1.7 is in development and it will be ready when it's ready, not a moment sooner.

You may not agree with Joomla Works' methods of communication, but hey, were only human and no one is perfect.

I'm am a K2 fan, I think it rocks and that's it's revolutionized Joomla content management. With that said, I can wait until it's ready and I'm not going to push my clients to J1.7 until in my opinion, it's ready (extensions and all).

Yeah, you keep waiting. I've lost count of all the software projects I've seen vanishing through the years due to developers losing initial momentum. I don't blame them, eventually everybody gets tired of what they're doing, especially if there's little to zero profit coming from it.

I wish I was wrong, but I don't expect K2 to resurrect. Better find another CMS, as Joomla is clearly not waiting for anyone and I won't get stuck with incomplete 1.5 just in order to use K2. For me, now it's Seblod time - hard as it may seem I find lots of advantages over both K2 and Zoo, including real live supporting developers for a change.

By the way Joomlaworks' twitter account is a huge joke. First (dismissive) looks at 1.7? BIKES & BABES CALENDAR?? Are you serious???

So, farewell Joomlaworks. Thankfully I did not invest too much time riding with you. A pity as some of your plugins looked nice enough to justify spending cash in them, but I won't risk facing an angry customer on your behalf whenever trouble hits and you're not around.

One last word - thanks for the helping hands at these forums, you guys are positively the best K2 has to offer.

Hope your wait is worth it in the end.

Fair point... However I have stated all along how much I want to K2 and how great it is. As a result I check the thread when I get an email and as there is no preview in the email I click the link to see if there has been any word. Then I may respond to comments directed at me (like this one). I can't be bothered with twitter and its benile contributions... I've already begun the process of 'moving on' and with that note I'm outta here although I may pick up with K2 one day on a future site (if it ever gets launched).

 

Bye for now fan-boys.

 

 

 

 

Lance Thompson said:.

It's obvious you care about K2 or you wouldn't keep coming back.

I've been following this thread with interest for a while as I've got a few sites using K2.

For J1.7 it looks like I'll move away from K2 but I'm unsure how to move the current K2 content across.

At the moment I'm thinking of exporting the K2 items & dropping the extra fields but haven't tested anything yet.

 

Has anyone investigated moving K2 items back to J! Content?

 

I asked joomlaworks if k2 2.5 is enoguh stable to be used with joomla 1.7 and he said yes. I asked him too if they plan to release k2 stable in the next two months and he said yes.

@kiril What did you use on the subject page of your site to create the layout with all the categories?

If you are asking about this website www.razberi.info/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82.html 

 

i am using the menu module

I am using 2.5SVN on J1.6 at www.cyberspace-ks.com (it is live page) and it is OK except for the tag cloud

@adam, this looks good. What trouble is the tag cloud giving?

@William I believe you were responding to my post, the problem with tag cloud is that it does not show anything only the module name. The SVN is about 2 weeks old I have seen in the bug page that someone has posted this as a bug, but I am not sure if it is repaired or not. Also it is very hard to know when SVN was last updated, it would be nice to know if it is updated every day or to have some numeric version note

hmm... In my case the Tag Funktion and the Tag Cloud in Module is okay.